"With virtual reality we wear a headset and submerge ourselves in a completely new world. When we look left or right we see different surroundings from the ones we're actually in. This makes it possible to simulate virtual classrooms that bring us much closer to what we're teaching than was possible in the past."
[Moderator Matthias Kirsch:] The man we just heard is David Wuttke. He teaches at the TUM School of Management, where he concentrates on the lecture of the future. He says it's entirely possible that in the not too distant future we may all simply attend virtual lectures as avatars. Welcome to "We are TUM", the podcast by and for the Technical University of Munich. My name is Matthias Kirsch and I'll be guiding you through this podcast. As always university President Thomas Hofmann will get things started by introducing the topics of today's episode to you.
[President Thomas Hofmann:] Welcome, dear listeners: There was an enormous amount of excitement in the mid-1980s, as the discussion began as to whether or not TU Munich should receive a research reactor. In particular, neighboring residents and opponents of nuclear power were concerned about the safety of the facility. But in the meantime the research reactor has been in operation for 18 years. As Technical Director, Axel Pichlmaier makes sure that conducting research there is safe. As this episode's Hidden Champion he tells us how to really take care of a reactor like ours. Then we'll hear from a start-up formed at TUM which is dedicated to the culinary side of life, namely beer brewing. A do-it-yourself kit from the company, BrauFässchen, makes it possible for everyone to brew their own beer. Founder Dominik Gruber tells us among other things about their hit beer flavorings like Mango. And we'll conclude this episode with Christina Holzapfel. The nutritional medicine expert gives us five specific tips on how each of us can use the right nutrition to improve our productivity throughout the day. A small preview: It's worth keeping a little secret compartment in your desk or locker. And now I wish you an enjoyable listening experience with the latest episode of "We are TUM".
[Kirsch:] What will teaching be like in the future? Will we attend virtual lectures as avatars? What sounds like a vision of the future is already reality for David Wuttke, Assistant Professor at the TUM School of Management in Heilbronn. Among his focus topics are things like supply chains and digitalization. He tells my colleague Clarissa Ruge about the potentials of virtual reality in teaching and why you shouldn't have vertigo if you'd like to participate.
[Clarissa Ruge:] Mr. Wuttke, you use virtual reality in your teaching. Why? What makes it so exciting?
[David Wuttke:] First of all, what's exciting about virtual reality is the fact that it's new, that it's something different, that it has a completely different kind of sensitivity. We all know the online conference systems, video conference systems, where only a two years ago when the pandemic forced us all to use them online and we all got tired of them. We know them, but they get boring fast. With virtual reality we wear a headset and submerge ourselves in a completely new world. When we look left or right we see different surroundings from the ones we're actually in. This makes it possible to simulate virtual classrooms that bring us much closer to what we're teaching than was possible in the past.
[Ruge:] So what I envision is you're basically standing in a virtual lecture hall as an avatar. Do you then hold your lecture exactly the same way you would present it on location in Heilbronn?
[Wuttke:] That was actually the first approach. We wanted to get back there, we wanted to take a good step back towards more normality, but during that semester – it was an experiment – we learned that it doesn't work quite that easily. The main advantage of virtual reality is the interaction.
[Ruge:] Were you able to take advantage of the complete range of possibilities offered by a 3D room in your course, for example splitting up students for group work?
[Wuttke:] I'd say more and more as time went on. At first we ourselves had to learn, but we soon reached a very good level where we were working very dynamically, making use of almost all the possibilities available there. The students and I knew exactly what had to be done and it was really a seamless transition. So in that sense we were able to make very good use of it and in the end it was really a lot of fun.
[Ruge:] And how are the students receiving it?
[Wuttke:] In general, very positively. On the one hand they appreciate the fact that we're not only talking about the digital transformation on PowerPoint slides, but we're really living it out and showing what's possible with modern technology, that's very well received. So is the fact that we're choosing new approaches, that we can learn more that way, we can interact more, the reactions have all been very positive. On the other hand, there were some difficulties with acceptance, the technology is still not entirely where it should be, so that sometimes some of the participants were feeling a little dizzy or there were headaches… We still have to work on that a bit, but the basic reaction was very positive and the students were also very glad to be able to try out something new.
[Ruge:] So the students then all have these glasses on and enter this, let's say, adventure hall together, right?
[Wuttke:] That's exactly the idea, that everyone wears the glasses. Nevertheless, the solution we chose also makes it possible to enter the space using a smartphone or a computer. So if it just won't work with VR glasses, for example because the participant has a slow internet connection or doesn't have a device or a little vertigo and gets dizzy using the glasses, then it's no problem to follow along using a computer.
[Ruge:] In your study you mention among other things that there's also one difficult aspect: taking notes. So here I am, I'm wearing the glasses, I'm in the virtual room, it's probably a lot more exciting, but I can't write anything down. How can that be solved in the future?
[Wuttke:] I assume there will be technical solutions. The first steps have already been taken, there are keyboards which interact with the VR glasses so that I can virtually see the keyboard and virtually see my hands and can write. That's a good step. I think there will probably also be other solutions, for example the possibility of connecting a tablet. We're not there yet, but I hope these approaches will work out.
[Ruge:] Does your study also include the degree of acceptance? Did you measure what happened when students can choose between the conventional Zoom meeting or a recorded lecture that I can listen to whenever I want, and your virtual reality session?
[Wuttke:] The preferences vary from student to student. On the whole we received very, very positive feedback and almost all the students said they think it's cool to try this out. Although the vast majority found the experience good, there were also some voices that actually said they'd still prefer to keep working with video conference systems, simply because of a number of advantages, also because it's easier. I simply have to click on a link and I can immerse myself better in the experience. That can certainly be a reason too. But on the whole I'd say the picture is a positive one, although I think almost all of us agree on one thing in particular: Most of all we'd prefer to return to the brick and mortar lecture hall. It's entirely clear that this experience beats out virtual reality.
[Ruge:] But you're still working on it. What would you say is your personal idea of the perfect virtual reality lecture?
[Wuttke:] Well, I think you have to distinguish between various levels, how you use the technology: First of all the system we had, where we're represented by avatars, everyone at a different location, that will certainly improve. Didactically speaking you could go a step further and at the same time you could improve things quite a bit with new technologies, we were talking about that before. I think that will be put to use in specific cases, for example with lifelong learning, where not everyone is on campus anyway. I see a tremendous amount of potential use there, when managers are still at their companies and I can still maintain a very, very active interaction. Especially for these formats I think it's great, when I think of the application at the Heilbronn site, then in the long-term I'm thinking more of simulations, for example in areas where I'm also active and doing research. That we say, OK, let's develop simulations in the fields we're teaching in. For example, we're currently active here, we want to embed this in the lecture and use virtual reality as an enrichment. The core still should and must take place on location, I'm convinced that this is the strongest form of teaching, and at the same time that we'll use this simulation to even better illustrate several topics.
[Ruge:] So in your opinion the technology is here to stay?
[Wuttke:] Yes. And looking to the future, I think I'd even expand on it a bit. In addition to virtual reality there's also augmented reality. We talk about a number of these formats collectively as "extended reality" and I'm totally sure that this will be put to use more and more. Equipment will get better, will be less expensive, the possibilities for generating content will also improve and get less expensive and I'm sure the at some point using one of these methods will be pretty much the standard in good lectures.
[Ruge:] You've been at the Heilbronn campus for about two years now, before that you were at the university in Paderborn, EBS university in Wiesbaden and at the university in Dublin – and now here at TUM. How would you describe the differences?
[Wuttke:] Well, what I'm particularly thrilled about, an important aspect at the Heilbronn site: We can experiment, we can try out new things, the resources are there, the possibilities are there. You just have to use them, and that's really a lot of fun.
[Ruge:] Thanks for speaking with us! Bye!
[Wuttke:] My pleasure.
[Kirsch:] Nuclear power, nuclear weapons, nuclear radiation – when it comes to radioactivity, the talk turns serious: This technology also entails major dangers. So it's no wonder that special care is given to safety at the TU München's research reactor in Garching. After all, researchers should be able to work in a controlled atmosphere. The man who makes this safety a reality is Axel Pichlmaier, responsible as the technical director of the Garching research reactor and the Hidden Champion of this episode. My colleague Fabian Dilger speaks with Axel Pichlmaier.
[Fabian Dilger:] Hello, Mr. Pichlmaier, thank you for taking time for us.
[Axel Pichlmaier:] Good morning, Mr. Dilger. Glad to have you here.
[Dilger:] Mr. Pichlmaier, you're the technical director of a research reactor. To the uninitiated listener that will sound, well, pretty technical. How would you introduce yourself at a dinner party? Are you the protector of the research reactor or would you rather say the manager?
[Pichlmaier:] That's an interesting question, one I never really asked myself. But as far as the dinner party is concerned, I have to ask: What's the mood like at the table, whether relating to atomic energy or not, then I respond accordingly. But otherwise I'd see myself more as the manager. Protector sounds sort of mythically dramatic…
[Dilger:] As a layman we can first of all ask why we need something like a research reactor in the first place. There are a lot of experiments going on in Garching which aren't necessary just related to physics.
[Pichlmaier:] You might laugh, but not only the layman asks that question, experts do too. Many of the inspectors who visit us and the regulatory authorities, they work at atomic power plants, they also ask: What exactly do you do here all day long? It's pretty clear you're not generating electricity. And it's true. So what do we need these free neutrons for? We put them to work. We're interested in the free neutrons, not in the heat. What do we use them for? Let me start by saying they're a kind of "jack of all trades": For example, we've been able to weld metals for decades, maybe even a century or more, and you'd think by now we would have figured out all there is to know about welding, that it's been totally optimized. But that's not the case at all. Today there's still a lot of room for improvement in the field of welding technologies. And I can take a fantastic look inside welded joints using neutrons, a much better and more detailed image than would ever be possible using x-ray radiation. And as a result I can achieve real process improvements. Or another example, something everyone is talking about today and hardly anyone knew anything about just a few years ago: mRNA vaccine. The major players AstraZeneca and BioNTech were already with us when almost nobody had heard of them, they were investigating ways to bring the mRNA vaccines inside the cell. And there were some very interesting results that help make it possible to develop these vaccines so incredibly fast and make them work so well today. That's a great achievement of science, if you ask me…
[Dilger:] As technical director you're responsible for the safety of the plant. When we think of safety we think of major accidents, but what would be an everyday example that shows us something about what your work involves?
[Pichlmaier:] I think you're right, we should concentrate on everyday work and the little unpredictable things that happen on a daily basis. That's completely normal: A machine like the FRM II can break down, or part of it can break down, that's unavoidable and you have to consider in advance what can happen if any given component happens to fail. A specific example, actually a minor technical issue: One very important component we have is what's called the central channel. The reason it's important is that during operations the only fuel element we have is kept in place by the central channel. The channel makes sure that the cooling process complies with specifications and take place as intended. The central channel also separates our heavy water and light water systems, which means it's very important in terms of safety. So now a small leak occurs, not to the outside and not into the plant, but into what's called the leakage monitoring system. We're talking about a very small leak here, maybe a drop every few minutes, but we still can't operate the reactor under those conditions. Unfortunately it's also the case that this central channel isn't so easy to repair, among other things because it's extremely hard to reach. The only option we have in this context is to remove the defective part of the channel and replace it with a new part. And then we have the issue of the new part: You can't just drop down to the hardware store and pick one up. There are only a handful of companies that can build something like that, since safety-critical technical parts are accompanied by inspectors every step of the way from the smelting of the metal they're made of until they're installed here on location. And there are plenty of regulations and standards which have to be followed. Only a small number of companies are capable of doing that. So the procurement process doesn't take place over night, but rather may take weeks or even months. And that's what we have to do: A small cause, minor impact, no major technical safety significance, but nevertheless a large impact on the FRM II, since it can't operate under these circumstances.
[Dilger:] Before coming into your office, Mr. Pichlmaier, I had to pass through the security checkpoint, had to sign on to a list… I can imagine you don't just apply for a job at the research reactor, but you'll have to undergo a certain amount of scrutiny before you get a job here.
[Pichlmaier:] Oh, you can apply for a job, there's no reason why not, we're always happy to meet a good applicant. But getting right down to it, what you probably mean is: Are there background checks and some other prerequisites you have to meet in order to work here? And yes, there are… Not only here, but at airports – just recently there was some discussion of this in the daily news – intensive background checks are carried out there too. We refer to this as a reliability review, something like an expanded, significantly more intense police background check, where the authorities at your places of residence over the last ten years can determine whether you may have done something that you shouldn't have done. For example, selling plant substances which may be covered by controlled substances laws, something like that. So if someone has already had to go on trial and has received a certain penalty, they're no longer considered reliable and as a rule will not be allowed to work with us here. This is also a part of the employment contract, we tell everyone who submits an application to us. The majority of people are honest and friendly and reliable, so there's no problem at all. But there are of course also cases where in the job interview somebody says: "OK, I see, if I had known that … yeah…." and then that's the end of the discussion. That doesn't happen often, but it does take place every now and again.
[Dilger:] While out on your bike trips you get around a lot and while here in Garching you probably have a lot to do with the safety of things which aren't immediately visible. On your bike trips, though, you've probably had at least one specific experience where it was really a matter of life and death.
[Pichlmaier:] I really enjoy riding my bike, it's my go-to means of transportation. And yes, I think it's the ideal way to get to know another country while on vacation. Sometimes being on the road has a very down-to-earth charm. But first let me make a distinction: Is it a real threat to life and limb, or is it just uncomfortable? And if it's just uncomfortable, then it will pass at some point and just is another interesting experience. This is where I'd put for example my experience in New Mexico, where I lived for two years, in the desert. There are very heavy thunderstorms there in the summer. Once I was out and about on my bike and I could see a thunderstorm brewing in the distance, but it was very far away and I didn't really give it a lot of thought, although in the back of my mind I was thinking, yeah, there is such a thing as a flash flood and things could go wrong. I was in a relatively narrow canyon and there actually was a flash flood, and not a lot I could do about it. It wasn't particularly spectacular, but you really shouldn't underestimate the power of the water, especially when it's carrying all kinds of things, mud, wood, refuse, everything imaginable. And my attempt to first just get out of the way and hold on to a tree was a complete disaster, my bike got washed away somewhere too.
But fortunately it was over as quickly as it had started up, and I was soaking wet. It was evening, and at night it can get very cold in the desert on a lonely little spit of land with high canyon walls on three sides and the road out on the other side of the raging creek. It took quite a while for the water to go down far enough that I was ready to dare trying to cross. And then I prepared for a long march home, it would have been a good forty kilometers. Then, completely unexpected, all of a sudden out of nowhere one of these American pickup trucks pulls up and the driver asks if I need a ride. Of course I said yes. And the funny thing was, it was a shiny brand new truck, with a white leather interior. You can imagine how I looked after wading my way out of a landslide of mud, but that didn't interest the driver a bit. Coincidentally he drove me right to within about a hundred meters from my own front door. I'd never seen him before and I never saw him again. A remarkable experience, a great story – it still gives me chills.
[Dilger:] Mr. Pichlmaier, thanks for having us here to visit the research reactor in Garching and thank you for sharing so much about your work.
The Young Perspective
[Kirsch:] Bavaria is beer country, Bavaria is brewery country. That means there's good news and bad news for anyone founding a beer brewing company in Bavaria: The good news: The market is there. The bad news: So is the competition. That's why the start-up "BrauFässchen" ("The Little Keg"), founded by TUM students, simply turned the tables. Everyone can brew their own beer with do-it-yourself sets from BrauFässchen. My colleague Fabian Dilger meets with the co-founder and CEO of "BrauFässchen", Dominik Gruber.
[Dilger:] Welcome, Mr. Gruber.
[Dominik Gruber:] Hello, nice to be here.
[Dilger:] Mr. Gruber, students sometimes have a certain affinity to beer and other spirited beverages… What gave rise to the idea of your own company, "BrauFässchen"? Was it for example the product of a classic chill-session at home, or did something else inspire you?
[Gruber:] I think you're pretty much right: Especially at TU Munich, where all students are even offered free beer at the university's official welcoming event. So beer is definitely a topic at TUM. For us the final trigger was getting to know each other in the three-way founder team through a Manage and More grant from UnternehmerTUM. Then in late 2011 we were at a "Manage and More" party standing at the bar and we thought, you know, you could really make much cooler, more unusual beers, and that was really the beginning of the BrauFässchen story.
[Dilger:] The central idea of BrauFässchen: You make your own beer. And there are a variety of flavorings you can experiment with, for example Mango, Passion Fruit or Oakwood Chips. Conservative beer lovers might throw up their hands in amazement, but what was the thought behind making beer with all these exotic flavors?
[Gruber:] I think we were intentionally being a little provocative. At the time we got started, around 2012, 2013, there were hardly any craft beers in Germany. That was really the beginning of the movement, we were already familiar with it from stays abroad in Belgium and the USA, where there's a much, much wider variety of beers and for us it was a little frustrating, since Germany is really known around the world as the country of beer. But when you compared the varieties of beer available, Germany was way down on the list. So that was sort of our mission, consciously so. The most extreme type of craft beer is when you brew it yourself, which is why we wanted to combine this do-it-yourself brewing with the possibility of putting together your own exotic flavor combinations, creating a new beer experience and at the same time more variety in beers.
[Dilger:] The TUM "Manage and More" program which brought the three of you together, how did you use that? How did that help you move ahead?
[Gruber:] "Manage and More" is an eighteen month ideational grant program; you can apply for the program and then you receive a basic entrepreneurial education. And with "Manage and More" you always have the opportunity to either work towards becoming an intrapreneur, which means I have an entrepreneurial posture in a larger company, or an entrepreneur, which means I want to start something myself. We were all in the second or third semester of Manage and More. We first did projects for large companies, and we had the feeling we had some really cool ideas, but they weren't being implemented and that's why we came to the conclusion that before we were done with "Manage and More" we wanted to develop another one of our own start-up ideas and work on it. And then we had the idea for the BrauFässchen at this party. We linked the passion, or the party, and the idea of brewing your own beer with the UnternehmerTUM education from "Manage and More" and that was what got it all started. And I find that interesting, since "Manage and More" also gave us the opportunity to receive start-up consulting for the first six months. That gave us a crash course: How do I formulate my first business plan, how do I develop a prototype, where do I start, what's important, how do I approach potential investors? So it was really a kind of six-month long crash course in "How do I start my first company?"
[Dilger:] So thanks to the advance education from TUM, the basics for the founding the start-up or for getting started were also very good, as you've said. What kind of difficulties did you run into? What kind of uncomfortable surprises were there?
[Gruber:] We were relatively naïve, especially in the beginning, and we thought with such a great idea it would be easy for us to find potential producers and raw materials vendors. We were at a trade fair, at first everything was actually pretty positive, fantastic conversations, positive feedback, the whole thing. Sample provision was really great as well, and then the big, unpleasant surprise came up and things started to get serious as for the first we heard time the expression "minimum purchase quantities in the industry"... We were just miles away from that kind of volume, from the usual ideas about how much malt, hops and flavor ingredients or extracts you have to purchase, and it just wasn't possible for us on the one hand. And on the other hand we were also more typical of the category "Lean Start-Up": We wanted to do as little as possible in-house and actually we wanted to produce externally, but we didn't find anyone who wanted to produce for us in such small quantities. And then we chose what I think is a fairly unusual path: We started setting up our own food production facility simply on the outskirts of Munich, in the meantime we're on Munich's Landsberger Straße. And we started sourcing our products ourselves, we really started out with nothing, and we began producing all the raw materials we needed ourselves.
[Dilger:] And this obstacle also turned into a new business idea, since the foodstuffs production operation is actually your second mainstay.
[Gruber:] Exactly, and that was a revelation for us, that we weren't the only start-up or the only small or medium-sized company in the foodstuffs and beverage industry. That's why five years ago we started a second company with exactly that goal in mind. So we're the contact point for other food and beverage start-ups who want to purchase food ingredients in small quantities or who are really looking for an external producer who also would like to produce in small volumes. And that's actually also a bit of what our vision is now for BrauFässchen and Pure Flavour, for the two companies, we want to offer other food and beverage start-ups this know-how on how to build a beverage brand, including production and everything. Because I personally am completely convinced that there are so many cool, new products in the area of foodstuffs and nutrition that can be offered on the German market.
[Dilger:] Many start-ups, many newly founded enterprises don't even make it to the point where you are today. Do people who are currently founding companies, new start-ups, for example from TUM, who would like some advice?
[Gruber:] Definitely, we're also making a conscious effort to maintain our network connections with TUM, simply because, in my opinion, TUM is one of the best entrepreneurial universities in Germany. And again and again we really do receive inquiries from newly founded companies, from founders in the field of foodstuffs and beverages on a variety of topics like sourcing and production, also on our experience with how to work together with the retail food branch, what to keep in mind in terms of margins or quality topics. And I'm also totally convinced that when you've made a mistake yourself, it's incredibly good if you can tell someone about the mistake and they don't make the same mistake and you can do a little bit to help somebody else get the nerve to take the plunge at the deep and. That's really the best thing you can do.
[Dilger:] Mr. Gruber, thank you so much for the conversation and your insights on the experience of founding your own company.
[Kirsch:] We'll conclude today's episode of "We are TUM", as always, with our feature "Five Tips". Today our subject is nutrition, more exactly how nutrition in our everyday routines impacts our lives at school, at the university, at work. I'll be speaking with nutrition scientist Christina Holzapfel. She conducts research at the Institute of Nutritional Medicine at the University Hospital Klinikum rechts der Isar, with much of her research focusing on the topic of obesity. Hello Ms. Holzapfel.
[Christina Holzapfel:] Hello.
[Kirsch:] Ms. Holzapfel, today you've brought us five tips on how we can make nutrition work for us in our everyday lives. But before we start, a personal question for you: When you have an important day in front of you, for example when you have to finish writing a paper or you have to hold an important lecture, do you have any nutrition-related rituals? Do you always eat the same breakfast?
[Holzapfel:] I actually don't eat breakfast at all, since it's really not absolutely necessary. But as soon as the first signs of hunger set in, I usually eat muesli with fresh fruit; and my inside tip: I always have something with me in my purse for whenever I get hungry or start feeling a little sluggish, so that I can eat whatever it is I brought with me.
[Kirsch:] It's good to always be prepared. Now let's turn to the nutritional science tips we can put to work in our everyday lives. You have five specific tips for us. What are they? Tell us more…
[Holzapfel:] Sure. First of all I have something on breakfast, then come beverages and a light lunch, then: How can you choose healthy snacks? And my fifth tip is: Being well prepared is half the battle.
Now my first tip: breakfast. This is always a big question and the subject of a lot of scientific discussion, but there's ultimately no clear indication that adults need to eat breakfast. You can decide yourself whether or not to eat breakfast. And it's not absolutely necessary to eat three square meals every day. If you choose to eat breakfast, what should you eat? The best is muesli, with cereal flakes of some sort, for example oat flakes; you can add linseed, or dried fruit or nuts, ideally with yogurt or milk and then as I said fresh fruit. Then you'll be strong enough to face the first part of your day.
The second tip has to do with drinking. You should drink one and a half liters every day in the form of no-calorie beverages. This will usually be tea and water, and of course it's always an option to pep up the water by adding for example some lemon or a bit of ginger or mint. It looks nice, makes drinking some water a little more appealing and most of all the water then has a little flavor.
My third tip is lunch. Eat something light for lunch. Here the best idea is maybe a sandwich role or maybe some soup, a salad, nothing too greasy, since greasy food of course requires a lot of energy to metabolize, to digest and then your body is of course using the energy for digestion instead of devoting it to your brain and your work. So a light, easily digestible meal at midday will do a lot to get you through the second half of the day, and it also helps you avoid the tired phase in the middle of the afternoon.
[Dilger:] So skipping the schnitzel and fries in the cafeteria for lunch is a good idea?
[Holzapfel:] Exactly. Meat like schnitzel is usually also breaded and then a nice pile of greasy french fries on the side, that's guaranteed to make you tired.
My fourth tip has to do with the snacks, between-meal bites to eat. There's often no way around it, you get hungry between meals or maybe you start to feel run down and your performance drops. Here I recommend either nuts or fresh and even dried fruit. All three are easy to take along with you, you can always have some in your bag and for example bananas in particular have a lot of fructose, which means they're a quick source of energy. The same goes for nuts. They provide a lot of energy, they contain unsaturated fatty acids and they'll help you make your way through the rest of the day.
And my last tip, the fifth one, is "Being well prepared is half the battle", here we're talking about meal preparation, which means you should plan your food, what will I have for lunch tomorrow? It's easy to cook things in advance, like soup. Another thing that's very practical, there are lunch boxes with all kinds of different compartments, so you can really prepare all the components and take them with you, you don't have to mix the food at home. And there are neat little cups where you can pack up some muesli apart from the yogurt and fruit, then mix everything up fresh right at your workstation or your desk at the university.
[Dilger:] What's the advantage of meal preparation, what does that save me in my everyday routine?
[Holzapfel:] Ultimately you'll always have something with you and in case you don't have a cafeteria where everything is made fresh and where the food is well-balanced and healthy, then you also have the option of your own healthy, balanced food that tastes good, meets your own personal needs and you don't have to drop in at the bakery or the nearest food stand.
[Dilger:] Right, the good thing is of course you always have something along with you just in case and if you all of a sudden get hungry or have a craving the way we all do sometimes, then you'll have something right at hand. Ms. Holzapfel, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us and for your five tips.
[Holzapfel:] My pleasure.
[Kirsch:] And that's it for this episode of "We are TUM". In the next episode we'll once again be showcasing TUM's cutting-edge research, student life and we'll be speaking with all those who make TU Munich the unique place that it is. This has been "We are TUM". This episode was produced by Fabian Dilger, Clarissa Ruge, ProLehre Medienproduktion and me, Matthias Kirsch. Sound design and post-production by Marco Meister of Edition Meister in Berlin. That's all until the next episode. Make sure to join us and discover the big and little secrets of the Technical University of Munich!